Filling Your Soul and Your Pockets with Gilli Nissim
“Be willing to go after what you want and
pay attention to what seems to be coming your way.
And if that changes your mind about what you’re
going to be doing with your life, that’s ok”
Guess what?? This is the last interview episode of Season 2! And I’m so excited about it because I have an awesome, kind, hilarious, and talented guest - Gilli Nissim.
Gilli is a writer, actress, and performer based in Los Angeles. She has been a writer for The Other Two on HBO Max, Pretty Smart on Netflix, and A.P. Bio on Peacock. She is also a co-host of the live talk show, We’re Gross, which was held at the UCB Theater in Los Angeles. And I’m so excited because after the long shutdown, it is coming back. And she and her co-host, Jake Jabbour, who was a guest in Season 1, get naked on stage. I don’t think every show, but a lot of them.
In this episode we talk about how Gilli viewed success after graduating college and trying to get into the entertainment industry, the many valuable things she learned from creating and making “We’re Gross,” the top 3 skills that helped her a job as a tv writer, and some great advice for writers and artists on their journey as they navigate the entertainment industry.
I had such a great time talking with Gilli and I hope you enjoy and get a lot out of our conversation. If you do, please take a screenshot of this episode and share on Instagram - tag me @levelupwithshay and Gilli @time2getgill
Thank you so much for being here. It’s time to level up.
Subscribe to Level Up! With Shay wherever you get your podcasts.
Gilli Nissim’s Links
Instagram: www.instagram.com/time2getgill
IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4191110/
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Timestamps
18:46 - What success meant to Gilli when she was younger
23:49 - The only audience Gilli was ever worried about pleasing
28:00 - Fill your soul and your pockets
31:07 - Gilli’s inspiration for We’re Gross
33:05 - Making it was more important than doing it
37:34 - Not everything we do needs to be for an end
41:39 - How Gilli got opportunities to write on TV shows
44:11 - Use nerves as tailwind
47:12 - Always attach something to an email
48:30 - It’s okay to get something done and know it’s not your best work
52:24 - The truth about writers
56:07 - How Gilli is leveling up
59:26 - How Gilli sold her pilot
1:02:39 - Gilli’s advice for people wanting to be a writer
Transcription
Shay 0:00
(intro) Hello and welcome to Level Up! With Shay. Guess what? This is the last interview episode of season two and I'm so excited about it because I have an awesome, kind, hilarious and talented guest Gilli Nissim. Gilli is a writer, actress and performer based in Los Angeles. She has been a writer for the Other Two on HBO Max, Pretty Smart on Netflix, and AP Bio on Peacock. She is also a co-host of the live talk show We're Gross, which was held at the UCB Theatre in Los Angeles. And I'm so excited because after the long shutdown, it is coming back and she and her co-host Jake Jabbour, who was a guest in season one. They get naked on stage. I don't think every show but a lot of them. In this episode, we talk about how Gilli viewed success after graduating college and trying to get into the entertainment industry; the many valuable things she learned from creating and making We're Gross; the top three skills that helped her get a job as a TV writer; and some great advice for writers and artists on their journey as they navigate the entertainment industry. I had such a great time talking with Gilli and I hope you enjoy and get a lot out of our conversation. Please welcome to Level Up! With Shay Gilli Nissim. Hello everyone and welcome to Level Up! With Shay. I'm so excited for my guest today. Writer on multiple shows, so many credits on IMDb, I would take up an hour just listing those out, but so excited for her to be here. Looks like she's a little scared. Gilli Nissim.
Gilli Nissim 1:55
Hello.
Shay 1:56
Hello, you okay?
Gilli Nissim 1:59
I just caught my own reflection or it's not a reflection but in the zoom box and just thought I'd give it a little funny face.
Shay 2:08
Okay, good. Great. I'm putting it everywhere.
Gilli Nissim 2:11
If we have to spend two years looking at our own faces on a computer, we better make them funny.
Shay 2:17
Yeah, that's true.
Gilli Nissim 2:19
I have props nearby. I've started keeping my computer props. I've got bunny ears, I've got dog ears, I've got googly eyes, you know.
Shay 2:30
Nice. Okay.
Gilli Nissim 2:31
Got to be ready.
Shay 2:33
Liven it up. I like it. Being intentional, I like it.
Gilli Nissim 2:37
Yeah, I guess it's embarrassing to let you know that I was ready for it. It would have been cooler to make it seem like I just sort of procured these dog ears.
Shay 2:47
Right.
Gilli Nissim 2:47
No, I'm prepared.
Shay 2:49
Yeah, I like that. I mean, just generally, because you're a comedy writer, you're a comedian. And I think sometimes for me, at least, I kind of forget to make life fun. Because I'm like it's work. It's the work that I'm going to make fun instead of just having fun with life.
Gilli Nissim 3:08
I think we all feel that way sometimes because it's stressful. And there's a lot on your mind. And I'm sure I am very annoying to some people. It's not appropriate at all times. But in general, I think people appreciate at least you making a fool of yourself. I'm not gonna write a think piece about how bunny ears need to come back into the landscape. I don't necessarily think they have a place. But yeah, being a fool. People don't mind as long as you can get back to work when it's time.
Shay 3:45
Yeah. That's super interesting, too because I did a handful of workshops for laughter and mindfulness. So, it was more for people in nine to five jobs type of thing. But it's still so funny because I'm like, "Laugh more and be mindful." But still, I'm coming sometimes from this place of these rules, rather than just being silly and free.
Gilli Nissim 4:18
That is so fascinating. And what an interesting thing to know that people need help remembering to laugh throughout their day. That's great. That's a wonderful thing to provide for people. I'm so happy to hear that.
Shay 4:26
Yeah, it was a great time in the pandemic. Cool. Well, I'm excited to talk about you. Yes, let's go. So, I want to start in college. So, you're from California, you've been in theater, you were in musical theater as a kid growing up. So, you've always been in that space, in the art space. And then you went to college, you studied political science and minored in English.
Gilli Nissim 4:51
Correct.
Shay 4:52
What was the choice for political science? Did you also know you wanted to be in entertainment and perform and all that?
Gilli Nissim 4:58
Oh Shay, it was a defeat. It was a concession, a compromise. First of all, I just want to say it's very jarring and kind of exciting. I feel very important hearing someone else say my bio back. Thank you for making me feel important. I was absolutely going to be an actor. It's the only choice. In my fifth-grade elementary school yearbook I said I wanted to be a wildlife photographer. But I think that was a lie. I think I already knew I wanted to be an actor, but I didn't feel like I was special enough to say it. It was all I ever wanted. I grew up around some kids who were doing it in the LA area, the suburbs of LA in the valley and people's parents who had some role in the industry, not a ton. It was a big mix. None of my close friends. Everyone's parents are a carpenter and a teacher, it wasn't like I was totally inundated with it, but it felt very possible. So, I wanted it real bad. I took a scene study class, it was
Cynthia Bain's Young Actor Studio. I just followed a friend who was doing it. I started when I was 14, and everyone else in the class but me was on television. They were the kids who move here for pilot season with one parent and they have another parent in their southern home state taking care of their siblings. And they're just here living in the Oakwood apartments, it was still called that, and just trying to make their dream come true. And then I was like, "My mom drove me half an hour to take a class. I like acting." And I looked old, I'm tall, you and me. I'm sure this happened to you, too, where it's like, I was obviously a child, but people don't know what to do with you, when you have height, like you're a tree, you must be old if you've grown this many inches. So, that's the opposite of what under 18-years-old need in the industry, and you're supposed to be 18 to look younger. I was constantly being asked by adult men what school I went to, and now I know they meant college, but I was like, "Hale". And they'd be like, "Where's that?" And I'm like, "Down the street from my house." (laughs)
Shay Dominguez 7:20
Yeah. (laughs)
Gilli Nissim 7:20
So, it really wasn't in the cards and my mom knew that which is awkward for her. Not only did she not support it on intellectual and moral reasons, she was also just like, "You're not gonna make it kid."
Shay 7:34
Oh no.
Gilli Nissim 7:36
So, that was in my head a lot of just like, "I'm not it. Maybe when I'm older, I can do it." But as a child, I wanted it so bad, but knew it wasn't really gonna work. I got an agent. I looked it up in the Yellow Pages and showed up at a mall. I skipped school. I had a special work permit that my mom signed. I don't know how I got her to sign it, but she signed it. And I would leave school to go to weird auditions, by myself, which I think is allowed. I think if you're under 18 a parent has to be there. Somehow, I never got any of these weird like one was a drug PSA or a commercial for Dick's Sporting Goods where the lady who was my agent told me I could show up in any sports uniform. So, I wore my basketball uniform, and everyone else was wearing a softball uniform. And it was like, "Oh my gosh. Okay. At least I have something I can blame on why I didn't get this." So, when it was time to go to college, I was like, "I must go to NYU. There are no other schools." Movies had a big influence on me as far as telling me about my future, like many of us, so to me, it was NYU. If you want your dreams to come true, you can't have them without this key ingredient, it is step one. And it's a non-starter without it. It was that serious to me. And my parents moved across the damn world to go to the schools in Los Angeles. They separately moved here from Israel and happened to meet and their big dream was that they were going to pay for the education of their children in this state that is full. California has a ton of state schools that are good schools. So, that was their plan, their dream, they worked so hard for it and I was fucking it up by insisting I wanted to go to NYU. And they told me not to apply. I applied. I drove to the Doubletree Resort and did my monologues. I had gone to Barnes and Nobles and copied down out of a book because I didn't have money to buy it and also it just didn't occur to me to buy it. I think because I didn't have jobs as a kid. I think I could have bought it but I was like, "No, I'm just gonna copy them down." I ended up getting in, but the realities of paying for it. My family could not pay for it and it's insane to even expect your parents to do such a thing. Like I feel properly stupid. Now, it wasn't that I was like, "This is what I want and I need it." It was like, "I can't do my future without this." So, even though I got in, I declined. I looked into getting loans and looked into selling my eggs to go and, Shay, I don't mean to brag, but my eggs were very valuable.
Shay 10:30
Oh, did you sell them? Did you sell any?
Gilli Nissim 10:33
I didn't do it. I announced it. This was all on my living room computer searching, and Ask Jeeves search probably, of how to make money. And I stumbled upon a Jewish site, which I think is weird in hindsight, but Jews would pay top dollar for other Jews' eggs. Have you ever use TurboTax?
Shay 11:00
Um, maybe.
Gilli Nissim 11:01
So, when you're using TurboTax, with every form you enter, there's a little tracker on the side that shows you your federal and state return. And it's really fun to watch the number go up and then you put in a 1099 the number goes down. So, you're watching your value go up and down. Literally it was that with every stat I put in of tall, big money, good grades, my GPA, big money, big money. Just watching this game show go up and it would not have sustained any kind of payment and my life would have been hell if I had a long-term plan of donating eggs. But that's how young and stupid I was and I announced it to my parents at Shabbat dinner. And my dad started to cry. And I was like, "Oh, was this a big decision that I should consider more?" And I just caved. I immediately switched one movie dream for another where it was like, "If I'm not going to go to a renowned school and study and become immediately a famous actor off of that I want a bottle blonde, a surfer dude, college experience. It's going to be as much partying and as much fun as possible." And I chose to go to UC Santa Barbara of the California schools that I got into and chose to totally not study acting at all. I was like, "What's the point? It's embarrassing to do it if it's not at NYU, so I'm just going to choose what's practical, and honestly, what's easy and what sounds impressive. " Way too much of my life I have made choices based on things that just seem like I could tell someone this and they would be impressed by me. And that's the reason why I wanted to be an actor. It's the reason why I have a degree in political science. So silly, but I did really enjoy the classes and many of my friends who we talked about this, it's like, I would kill to take those classes now. Because I heard a lot of the sound of buzzing for four years of my education. I literally heard like, "wah wah, wah," and the dial tone instead of actually taking in an education but maybe someday we'll go back.
Shay 13:31
Because you're remembering stuff so you can get an A on your tests, you can get an A on your homework. That is the point of school. It's not to learn, it's to pass these tests.
Gilli Nissim 13:42
Yes, I aced, I'm good at school. I got really good at school of like, "What do I need to appear like I'm doing well?" I had a couple classes that all involved reading that were memorable. I took one class that was using science fiction to discuss politics. A lot of classes really satisfied both my majors, I also doubled in comparative literature but that's too long to list. I just fucking read and took classes. But that was really cool. We read Starship Troopers and discussed any good story is about something and most sci fi is borrowing from some pretty clear political situations or wars or periods of time. So, it doesn't take much to turn things into sci fi from reality. I definitely enjoyed it. I was about to try to make a stretch and say I use that in my work now but I don't, I just still read sci fi.
Shay 14:43
Yeah.
Gilli Nissim 14:44
But the big thing that mattered was week two of being at UC Santa Barbara, which is literally a college on the beach, people are wearing bathing suits underneath their tank tops and teeny tiny Hollister shorts. It is the California College joke of a dream, it really was amazing, I was depressed. I was like, "I can't believe that I ruined the rest of my life." I couldn't see the shining sun and glittering ocean and rolling hills and hot people everywhere. I just was so focused on this dream of mine having been dashed. But week two, one of the short form improv teams performed at my dorm and Shay, that changed everything.
Shay 15:36
Yeah. Wow.
Gilli Nissim 15:38
Yeah. So, that saved the whole experience.
Shay 15:42
Awesome.
Gilli Nissim 15:43
Yeah, and that's why people should go to any school if they have the opportunity. The massive privilege, as I'm sitting here, what a shithead. I was not wanting to be in this lucky place where my parents were paying for it. Graduating college at zero is an incredible privilege that I am realizing more and more as time goes on. That is not everyone's case. And you can work hard and have no connections and still have had to hustle. But getting that leg up is so massive. So, eventually, the huge gifts that my parents gave me became very, very clear and getting to do short form improv for four years. It was a blast. It was a damn blast and a privilege.
Shay 16:30
You triple majored in, also, short form improv
Gilli Nissim 16:34
One of my teammates and I joked about that because he was a history major. And we had a lot of the same classes. And it was like, "Yeah, we're doing these classes. But our blood, sweat, and tears are going into promoting this group." And every year we would audition new people. It had some trappings of a fraternity or sorority and that way of caring a lot about making sure this group will survive when we graduate and I really do think I majored in short form improv before talking, hours spent and what I actually cared about. Yeah, it was buzzers and bells and party quirks for sure.
Shay 17:14
Yeah, I get that. I mean, going to UCB for however many years. That's another college, too. It's just more classes. So, I heard in an interview that I listened to with you, Why Don't You Date Me by Nicole Byer, and you said in the interview, you were talking about your friends, maybe from college, or maybe from my high school and you wanted to reconnect with them. But at first you ran away, because you wanted to get on the road to success. You wanted to go, you'll catch that success, and then you'll come back to them and everything will be cool. So, I'm interested in knowing what did success mean to you at that time?
Gilli Nissim 17:58
Oh, shit. That's a really good question. I think it meant a lot of surface level things that I thought equaled happy. Yeah, because I wanted to be happy. But if I had to break down what happy meant I wanted to be seen as interesting. So desperately wanted to be seen as interesting. My older sisters are identical twins. And I think that this is forever residual resentment from that of, they literally would walk into a room and people would be like, "Wow, so interesting." Give me a fucking break. They don't do anything. They just listen up. Ani DiFranco and Nirvana and are mean to our parents. That is nothing to be proud of.
Shay 18:45
Yeah. (laughs)
Gilli Nissim 18:46
So, yeah, I wanted to be interesting. I wanted to have a mansion that had floors that were see through, and that had fish in them. I wanted the things that little kids want way longer than other people did. I wanted to have slides instead of stairs. And it's like, how do you get upstairs? I wanted to be seen as interesting by people who wanted to date me. I wanted people falling at their feet and just cumming involuntarily at the sight of me. I think those were the big ones, some pretty immature ideas of success. I wonder if it's an LA thing. I'll never be able to know because I think all of us came to LA because we were so taken by the entertainment industry. So, I don't think it's just being from here. But I really was like, "What's the best way to do that? Actor? Yeah." And I happen to like storytelling and I like being on stage. So, it wasn't even that I thought I was particularly suited for it or I had thought that I was very, very special. And I believed my Mom and Dad when they told me that I was, but I didn't really believe I was this incredible acting talent. I just was like, "Well, special people go and become actors. So, that's what I better do." And the thing you're referencing, it was actually my high school friends that I neglected. My friends from high school are hilarious. Truly, truly, truly, maybe funnier than anyone ever in the world, and smart and interesting. And I constantly, maybe was trying to feel like I could run with them, which is why I wanted to be more interesting. But these people that I met in college were so talented specifically at comedy, it's the same thing when you then get to UCB. And you're meeting people who are so funny, your brain cannot get enough of that feeling of a pleasure center erupting in your brain of like, "I didn't know people could be funny on command like this." I had grown up liking stand up, and Whose Line even, but I didn't really appreciate the art of it. So, being taught short form games, being able to play them pretty well. And then standing and watching your teammates play. I still think these guys are so fucking funny. And not all of them are still in comedy. Some of them still are. The love affair that I had made me want to run in that direction, like, "I'm going to be with these people, we're going to go to LA, they want the same things I do, we're gonna pull each other up." I didn't think we would all get the same job or all work at the same place. I knew we were different individuals with different goals and skills, but we were going to do it together. And we were all going to succeed. And then we would be like Judd Apatow or SNL crews of people that make movies together. And that's what we're going to do. And that became the slightly more specific goal of like, "I don't just want to be an actor, I want to be a comedian. And I want to be a comedian with a group of friends like these guys." I say "guys" because I think unfortunately, there were mostly guys, but we added so many women to the team, which was great. The year ahead of me, and my year, there was one woman who was older than me who I could not believe someone could be good looking and funny at the same time. All this shitty ideas about women and comedy, I had absorbed as well. And she's hilarious. I just was like, "I need to put my nose down to the grindstone with these people until whatever success is possible can materialize because this is too fun. These people are too incredible. I believe in us, I believe in this." I just was like, "Okay, as a group, we're gonna go after this success." I feel like I'm giving the longest answers to you. I'm so sorry.
Shay 23:07
No, that's okay. I'm here for it, but that's so interesting. When I moved out to LA, I was like, "Okay, you have to focus, you have to focus, and have to leave this behind." Because it's such a grind out in LA. If you're not doing something, somebody else is doing something, and they're getting ahead. I totally get it, we do get that kind of laser focus or tunnel vision of just going and we can't stop because then we'll be forgotten, or we'll slow down or get old or whatever it is.
Gilli Nissim 23:49
Yeah, I think too, when you said that it made me think making my parents proud, was important to me. So, they were the only audience I ever worried about pleasing. My dad's an engineer. My mom is now a college professor. Later in life she went and got a masters. They're professional, educated people who literally came from nothing, did everything themselves. I'm so proud of them. And my sisters and I have talked about this, everyone I think feels this way about their parents, no matter what their parents job is. It's almost arbitrary that I haven't mentioned it, but you feel that feeling of like, "Our parents did something for us." So, at the very least, we need to make it and they weren't pleased that I was doing something as amorphous as the entertainment industry. That's something they don't understand. But it didn't really matter. If I was going to do it, I needed to make sure that I was doing it all the way. Not just sitting around waiting for something to come. That was my own made-up contract of like, "This is so fun, I want to do this for me. But the way that I'm going to approach it, I better be able to show the receipts of my hustle." But it's a weird thing in our comedy community sometimes you'll be friends with someone for a few years and then you're finally like, "Why are you always available? What's going on?" And then you find out they didn't ever need a job and I don't always think that's helpful. Even if it's your reality. It's not necessarily helpful, because those weird day jobs that I had all amounted to something whether I could see it at the time or not. They all amounted to something. But yeah, it's like, "Yes, let's do the grind." But for your own integrity, let's really go all the way in. And it doesn't mean we know what we're doing or where to start, but I better have five plates spinning to see which one is gonna be the one that pays off.
Shay 26:07
Yeah, totally. So, obviously, your view of success has changed over time. What does it mean to you now?
Gilli Nissim 26:16
I do think it's still evolving. I moved from wanting to be an actor to wanting to be a writer out of necessity because I couldn't get a job. So, in my late 20s, I finally started admitting to myself like, "Okay, maybe it's not in the cards for me. But people seem to keep telling me that I'm a writer, or could be a writer." So, it's like, "Okay, fine, let's fucking see this." And I think having been scrambling away at one thing, and failing, essentially, I failed, and then more recently, shifting to something new that I am starting to work in. It's just as hard when you're getting the work as it was when you're not. We all know that. The jobs and entertainment industry for the most part, they all end, even when you're a writer, which to so many people feels more practical for no reason. It's just as temporary. It's just as transient. So, that's a made-up impression.
Shay 27:17
Yeah.
Gilli Nissim 27:18
So, I think I would have said a year ago, it would be just to get a job would be success. But that is a big joke. Because we just look at the one thing ahead of us. But I think now I'm more leaning towards. Oh, God. I don't know, I actually really don't know. I'm unemployed right now. So, you caught me at a moment where I'm just like, "I don't fucking know."
Shay 27:47
It doesn't have to be external either.
Gilli Nissim 27:49
Okay, that I can answer.
Shay 27:51
Yeah, totally. Success, yeah, if it's external, those things come and go. But it's like," Oh, I get to work with my friends or I get to..."
Gilli Nissim 28:00
Okay. Yeah, I thought I was being really literal with that and it was stressing me out. So, in that case, success to me would be doing a mix of working on other people's stuff, making my own stuff. I think it's very relaxing to do other people's stuff, because it's not on you. You just show up and say some silly stuff and some ideas, and it's up to them. I also really like being at the wheel. And just like, "I think it should be this," and following that creatively. I think getting to do a mix of those would be a dream, and having months out of the year where you don't do anything. Which we get a lot, but it's not voluntary. I'm currently on an involuntary vacation. That would be the dream and all along the way doing as much of it with friends as possible. The time off, as well as the jobs. Yeah, that would be success. That would be major success. One thing my dad has is occasional moments of sage wisdom. And one thing he told my sisters and I was, "Fill your soul and your pocket." And I don't know if he realized how profound he was being but it's like, you know what? Yeah, maybe some people are okay being totally broke and stuff. And I think that's great. But that's not really an option for me, for many reasons. No shit. But also making sure, if you can make money doing what you love, I would like to fill my soul and also fill my pockets.
Shay 29:38
Yeah, I like that. Maybe I'll have your dad on the podcast.
Gilli Nissim 29:42
That would be a wild ride. I fucking dare you to. (laughs)
Shay 29:47
I don't know, maybe a double. Okay, talking about that you had a show at UCB with Jake Jabbour, We're Gross. There's a roast of you two, I just watched that earlier on YouTube. Very funny. And I went to one or two shows. I'm pretty sure both of you are naked.
Gilli Nissim 30:10
Yeah, that's us.
Shay 30:12
I covered my eyes.
Gilli Nissim 30:15
Oh no. So sorry. I'm selfishly really glad. The reason why we chose to be naked was to see just in case if people would stand, point, and go like, "yuck". So, saying you covered your eyes was a real blow to the ego.
Shay 30:32
That's on me. Honestly, that's on me. It's not because of you all.
Gilli Nissim 30:36
No, no, it's definitely because of that.
Shay 30:41
Well, I mean, I don't know if I would ever do that. But what inspired you to create We're Gross? Did you write a lot for that show? I have a couple questions. What inspired you? Were you a big writer on that show? I have produced shows, but it's kind of like a talk show, right? And there's a lot of writing that goes into it. And then what did you learn from that whole experience? And is it coming back?
Gilli Nissim 31:07
You heard it here first. We always meant for it to come back. From the first part of that question. Thank you for even asking if it's coming back, because that's nice. I don't know, even if you didn't mean it to be nice. It's nice. Jake and I met yesterday, and talked about this a ton. So, it's very, very raw and fresh in my heart. So, funnily enough, the show was inspired by Jake, he came up to me, we had already been pals around the UCB community, casually, but not super close. Yet at that moment, just the way we all have nine best friends and then 100 acquaintances that are also friends, we were all so lucky to have that, or we were and I hope you get it back. I think it was in the conversation at the moment of like, "All these late-night hosts, for real professional ones being men, why are they all men? We need more women in this space." And he was like, "I think you would be a good talk show host, I think we should make a show together." So, there's nothing funnier than empowering a woman and me saying, "Yeah, it's gonna be a female led show." But it was the idea of a man. I can't even tell you how good I felt. I remember, I think we were at Franklin and Co, a restaurant right next door to the UCB Theatre in Los Angeles, and just meeting because he said he had an idea for a show. For someone to say something like that to you. I could cry just thinking about it. It was so nice. And I still feel the warmth of someone who I think is great saying like, "I think you should host a show in this way." And I obviously thought it was a great idea. So, that was the inspiration.
Shay 33:02
What was the writing like? Did you write for that show?
Gilli Nissim 33:05
100%. So it's a mix of writing and producing. Some stuff, I would say we wrote this segment, but we didn't necessarily jot anything down. But it was such a great experience. And I want it back so badly. We're planning on bringing it back. But I don't fully remember the details of how we got on the topic. But it started to become clear that he was going to be my co-host and the show was always equally the two of us coming together. Jake is an incredibly supportive person. If I had an idea, he was like, "Yes, let's do it." And if he had an idea, it was like, "Yes, let's do it." And I probably would tweak his because I'm a bully, but they didn't necessarily need tweaking. I'm just a fucking real opinionated person. He was very supportive, always, but it really, truly was a 50% in writing and producing the show. And we wrote monologue jokes. That was probably the most straightforward writing. And sometimes we would get really, really, really funny people in to do it with us, which was so great, kind of trying to mimic the way it would be in a writer's room. Although I think a lot of monologue joke writers, I think SNL, it's some people in person and some people just submit every week, so it's like them alone. But it was so fun to come up with an excuse to meet in a room at UCB and pull up Yahoo News. We learned over time it was like better to do the weirder news stories than something that was actually, you know, you're not coming to this monthly show to hear anything actually newsworthy. And that was really, really helpful. Connor Shin and John Ford and Matt Mansur would come a lot and they taught me. Matt Mansur tweets a lot of monologue style jokes a lot. It's something he is doing and has done and there's a structure to them and it was really, really valuable to get used to that. I submitted to quite a few late night show writing gigs and did sample packets and working on the show absolutely improved that skill, times 1000. Many, many more people submitted jokes to the show. So, that was a group effort. That was really cool. And then Jake and I started to land on the show having a more emotional theme. We would get together, go on a walk and literally start with, "How are you?" and tell each other what was going on in that week. And it slowly turned into like, "Oh, that can be a segment in whatever," way. He and I talked a lot about how both of us don't want children. That's something we've both known for a long time. And that turned into many skits. I had a couples therapist suggest that I have a child to save my relationship just as that's an option I could do. And that was very upsetting to me. And that turned into a segment where Jake and I created PowerPoint presentations to see can another person convince us to have a kid. Always had the funniest UCB population that we could pull from to come and do bits at, like Robert Stevens. I didn't tell Jake. But I asked Robert Stevens to come and interrupt Jake in the middle of his bit, playing like a little boy and improvising with him to get fatherly advice. And it was so beautiful. Jake is a very nurturing person. It doesn't mean he should be a father, same with me. And it was incredibly personal and cathartic for us to just make the show. And the thing we realized, on our walk yesterday that we were able to like articulate was making it was way more important than doing it even though doing it was super fun. I got the biggest rush, being naked or doing something stupid in front of an audience full of people who had a reaction to it, so much fun. But he and I, meeting and coming up with stuff was so important to my life for so long. And I gotta say, having a show where your name is in the title, I got a ton of opportunity through that. Being on an improv team is super fun, everyone should do it, it doesn't matter where you do it. Or if you get mainstage time, if you're vibing with a group of people in a living room that is absolutely good for your soul, and so fun. If that is something you're interested in doing. That's great. But I think it's very rare that that will get you a job. And it's important that we do stuff that isn't for a job.
Not everything needs to be for an end. But I think some people do improv for like decades and are confused why nothing ever came of it. And I got lucky that Jake came to me with this idea. And we put my name in the title. And I got a lot of meetings, I got a lot of when you have someone saying like, "Hey, I think you're funny. Where can I see you?" If they come to your improv show, that's great. But they're seeing you do one skill, when they would come to see me do the show, they knew that I wrote some of the jokes, they knew that I co-produced the segments. And I had a time and a place where I could say, "Come see me show these skills to you."
Shay Dominguez 38:17
Yeah.
Gilli Nissim 38:17
And I think that did a lot. You know, again, it was more important for my mental and emotional wellbeing that I got to become incredibly close with Jake, who's one of my best friends now. That is way more valuable and always will be. But I think about it a lot. When I think about, "What did UCB do for me?" or, "How did I use that platform?" And I think getting to do a show with your name in it that demonstrates that you have tangible skills, which improv is such a huge skill. And we use it in the writer's room constantly. But it's not the same as what it takes to write jokes or complete a script. So, you want to show if that is something you want to do. It's good to find other ways to show it.
Shay 39:04
Yeah, you brought up so many great points. One thing is making it versus the actual doing it and stage time. People will be like, "Well, I want to be on stage and I want to have this show." And that's kind of how it is working as well. The work takes a lot longer than just the hour show that you go and perform. It's not just the show, it's all the behind the scenes that you don't see. Even with a TV show, you know, it's like, "I want to be on that 30-minute episode." And it's like, "Yeah, but a lot more goes." There's pre-production, production, post-production. There's so much that goes into it that people don't really take into account.
Gilli Nissim 39:47
I think there's an army of people. A lot of the work that I've gotten to do has been during COVID so I've been separated from the shooting process and that's my big goal dream if I get the chance. I want in, baby. I wanna location scout. What's that? Let me come. I want a seat in the van. I think they all get in a van and they drive around. That seems fun. Exactly what you're saying. You don't have to like every single bit of it. There are times that are frustrating and tough. And I got anxiety during the show sometimes, which I think is interesting. When you're changing over time, you also change as a performer. And that's okay. And I was really hard on myself about that like, "This isn't as simple or easy as it was for me maybe five years ago." Where I understand the game, why can't I get up and do it right now? I get it, I teach it. It's not always there for you. You being at your best isn't always there for you. If you can like the environment that you're in, it's pretty important.
Shay 40:59
Yeah, being there through it all. I like it. So, I want to talk more about your writing. You write for The Other Two, which is hilarious. Love it. And then AP Bio. And I'm curious, what do you think, top three strengths, gave you those opportunities?
Gilli Nissim 41:24
Interesting.
Shay 41:26
They could be you wrote for many years, connections, you really wanted it and you really focused on it, mentors, mentorship programs, stuff like that.
Gilli Nissim 41:39
Yeah, I am good in a meeting. If you're listening and you're wondering, "This bitch is good in conversation? I don't think so." I am, I am good in a meeting when I've gotten to that point. I've mostly gotten the jobs. Yeah, not all of them. But I've gotten them. And I'm superstitious enough to knock on a little wood right. I knocked on the treasure chest that I've had since I was little because I believed in fairies for way too long. I am good in a meeting, I think it is a nerve wracking situation. So, in the process to become a writer, I'm going to just say it in case someone listening doesn't know, there's like 50 million things that are happening that you have no control over. If you have a literary agent, which is sort of the typical to get a bigger network or streaming jobs, it's very difficult to just send your own script somewhere. You have an agent who's heard that the job existed or that they're looking for people and they have submitted you. They've maybe gone back and forth literally trying to pitch you like a good product like, "You want this person, you need their type." There's ranks in a writer's room. So, you need someone at this level of writing in their career. So, they're doing all that stuff, and you can do absolutely nothing about it. And then you usually get a meeting with some of the producers or an executive. And this is still something I'm a little bit unclear on but it's like someone's covering the show, which means you're meeting with people who are not the show runners, but they are important to the show. They're gonna help funnel people on to the show runner. So, that is a meeting that might have a few people in it. And I'm usually pretty good at those, you just need to show them that you're not crazy, because they're going to be trapped in a room with you for weeks at a time. And I think it's more than that. I think you want to seem like you don't want to fake anything. But you want to demonstrate that you are a pleasant person to be around that it would be fun, especially in a comedy room that it could potentially be fun. This is not a moment where I whip out the googly eyes. (laughs)
Shay Dominguez 44:10
Oh no. Okay. (laughs)
Gilli Nissim 44:11
Not yet, anyway. But I would if the time was right. But I think people get really nervous and forget that. This is a show. I think being an entertainer and coming from an improv background. A lot of friends, I can imagine being really good at it. Their whole day was full of emails and phone calls and annoying demands from people and they're taking a few hours to meet with a few different people. So, let it be a good time. I think it's more fun for me that way. And it doesn't mean that nerves aren't present. It's still exciting. And you might really get excited about the prospect of the job and it's hard to ignore that but I think if you use nerves as a tailwind, let it push you forward rather than hold you back. You can express whatever, you can be visibly sweaty. Then if they have approved of you, I think at that point they read your sample or they tell the showrunner they should read your sample, which is your pilot for your half-hour script. And then when you're meeting the showrunner, it's the same idea of just like, "Are you a human being? Can you connect?" I don't think you should write a comedy routine to perform at them. My agent is a very cool person. And I like her a lot. And she gave me the advice to ask for the job in the room. And that feels insane. Because it's like, "Well, first of all, no shit, I want the job, I wouldn't have come to this coffee shop in Burbank, if I didn't. Of course, I want that job. I wouldn't have driven 500 miles. Isn't that so apparent here?" And I didn't want to say it. I remember the first time where she gave me that advice, because it was one of my first meetings. And I thought to myself, "If she said it, you need to do it. That's your end of the bargain. She got you this meeting. If this is her advice, just do it. And if they think it's overly ambitious or too eager, hopefully, t's just one brief moment in a whole conversation. It's okay." And I was really glad that I did. And I do it every single meeting since. There's a little bit of business involved. And I think it's okay to be a businessperson. In addition to being a creative, being ambitious is not a bad thing, especially if it's one simple, direct statement of, "I would really love to work on this, I think I would be such a great asset." And then I always couch it and go, "Either way, I just am going to be so looking forward to seeing the show." It's not in me to just let the let the period go there. But at least that's me.
Shay Dominguez 47:11
Yeah.
Gilli Nissim 47:12
I don't know, for whatever reason, thinking of it as a little subdued performance. I think I do well at that. Number one. Oh, God. Number two, yeah. The other two I got because I'm friends with Drew Tarver, who was cast as the lead. But I listened to your interview with Carl. And I mean, he said 50 million brilliant things. But one of the things that really resonated with me is the showrunners asked Drew, because they know he's a comedian, if you have friends that you want to submit, and I think he was able to submit 10 people or something like that. They also were coming from New York. So, they didn't know as many people in the LA scene. So, people are always asking, you never know who's going to be asking who for a recommendation. And I was able to take that meeting, because I had a finished script. And that was something Carl said, and I tell this to people all the time. If anyone does ask for advice, the only thing I can really, really say with confidence is you gotta attach something to an email. If you say come to my improv show, or, "Sure I'll send it in a week."
Shay Dominguez 48:29
Yeah.
Gilli Nissim 48:30
All done. And guess what? It's not gonna be good. I'm so sorry. I hate saying definitive things because I am not all knowing or by any stretch the queen of Hollywood, but just do yourself a favor and admit that the thing you banged out in a week isn't going to be as good. Even if you pull it off, and you're so proud of yourself. You're proud that you got it done in a week. I don't know that you can be proud that it's your best work. They haunt me like ghosts, the job opportunities that I was so lucky to be asked to submit on things. And I didn't yet see myself as a writer or I didn't yet get over the fear of committing to writing words on paper and telling someone this is what I think is good. There's a lot to be scared of. All of that's real. But I banged out something and sent it along. And I do believe there are people out there who can. I've even heard of a couple people who did it and got the job. I don't think they're the rule. I think they're the major exception. It's gonna happen everyone, we all have to learn that painful lesson of like, "Sure, sure. Thank you so much. I will get you, I just need to polish it." bullshit. It's so common too. I think we all go through it. So, I knew Drew Tarver and I had a good script that I sent in an email. That's number two. And then I think in general, the improv skills in a writer's room, being able to listen to what's going on, I sort of never see us being finished. Sorry, let me let me rephrase that. I'm happy to say, when someone says this is the best idea, let's go with it. But if we haven't found that yet, I don't feel like there was like a bottom to that well. Not that me alone can keep just pitching brilliant ideas all day. But I think I'm a good member of a group of people who can keep pitching things all day. We can see things more than one way and taking things a surprising way. I think that's a direct translation from having an improvisers brain and doing all those reps. I think that is my strong suit way more than actually going and writing the script. I really enjoy that as well. We're all kind of quiet. We're all kind of realizing something isn't working. Let's bounce some ideas off. Let's "yes and" each other. Maybe I didn't say the right thing, but maybe part of it unlocked something for the other person. So many of my improviser friends who aren't necessarily looking to be writers or are maybe still too scared. We've got the discipline and structuring and writing a script, that stuff is really hard to me. But that's three.
Shay 51:54
Thank you. Love it. Thank you for sharing all of those strings. And so I'm wondering, what was something that surprised you? When you got into a writer's room that you were like, "Oh, I didn't think that this would be a thing." And what was something that maybe you expected to happen that didn't?
Gilli Nissim 52:24
Oh, I want to share something that surprised me. Writers are as emotional and dramatic as actors. And that's a good thing. I just thought, because it wasn't something I was pursuing all along. I was a nerd for TV, but not for TV writers. Which is funny, because now that I am one I'm like, "We're the ones who do the important work." I am a card-carrying proud member of the tribe. But we, I'm gonna say we, because that makes me feel cool. We are artists. And I think a lot of people want to try to "intellectual brain" themselves out of that. And some people are more inclined in that way for sure. I think everyone does have an amazing intellect. Especially if you didn't go to school for it. There's no degree that makes you more intellectual than someone else. And writers, everyone is a great deep thinker and thoughtful and that's really cool. But there's also some tendencies, everyone wants to talk shit. And everyone wants like "hot goss" and to be seen as cool, which shouldn't have surprised me, but it totally did. Because I think I saw writing as a more practical version of a Hollywood job or one of the branches of making a TV show, but it is not. What was the second part?
Shay 54:06
I mean, that's kind of the same question. I didn't realize it, but did you did you expect something going into a meeting? Because you kind of expected it to be intellectual?
Gilli Nissim 54:20
Yes, yes, yes, but emotional. But I will say I think I joined at a time where it was predominantly white people, white men, I have been a diversity hire and that's not good. I am a white lady. Definitely not okay. There are more. I was expecting it to be old white men like 60 years old. I know that's not necessarily old, but older, all white men. For the shows that I've worked on, have had a lot of younger people. So, that is promising. And more of a mix of backgrounds. Not enough, okay, now we did both.
Shay 55:13
Yes. Thank you. I really wanted to know. Thank you for that. What are you doing these days to level up?
Gilli Nissim 55:29
I am not fast and I am leveling up by admitting that to myself. For a long time I thought that if I could be the fastest, that would be an asset, that would be attractive to hire me. That's not how I work. I can meet a deadline, because you have to. But when I'm writing my own stuff, which I have the opportunity to do now, I'm working on a project that I sold. Isn't that cool?
Shay 56:04
Okay, that's another question.
Gilli Nissim 56:07
Sorry, I am making the longest episode of your podcast, I'm sure. Feel free to ask anything. But just admitting to myself. I guess this comes from my anger at trying to bang something out in a week, when you clearly have nothing. This is explaining that passionate feeling. Because I'm fast in a lot of other ways. I can be quick witted, but when it comes to sitting at my computer and writing a script, I find that to be very hard. It still is hard. For me, there's a formula I have, I understand the formula for writing pilots, but it doesn't make it easy. It just is a good place to start. For me personally, it doesn't make it easy. So, I am leveling up by continuing to work and make things and allowing myself to get rid of this pretense that I'm supposed to be really fast. And if you're not fast, you're not as smart or you're not as good at this, or you must not be this wunderkin you saw yourself as. That is not true. If people like what I send them, and I'm meeting the deadlines. I can allow myself to make something good in whatever fucking time it takes. And some days, that means you sat at your computer, and you couldn't make yourself write, your head wasn't in it. But I wrote six things that later on I'll use and it's like, "Fuck, this is gonna take longer, and I don't want it to." So what? Yeah, that's how I'm leveling up.
Shay 57:46
Yeah, I love that. It reminded me of Carl's episode. Fe said, he banged out, took eight hours Saturday and Sunday, and banged out stuff. It's not doing it fast. It's just a deadline. That's what he said, if you have a deadline, that's great when you're working with networks, with people who are paying you. But when you're with yourself, and you're just working on your own pilot, it's hard to give ourselves a deadline and actually stick to it.
Gilli Nissim 58:22
And for the record what Carl was doing, he then mentioned how many revisions it went through, right? He didn't say, "At the end of a weekend, it's done. I'm expecting this to be good enough." He also has a reputation, he's a genius. He's so funny and smart. So, that process is great. And that is actually how I work as well, I spend two days, banging it out, knowing that it's not good, being okay with that. And then this is when you're on scripts for a TV show, you get five days, essentially, or maybe a whole week to write it. And it took me a really long time. And I failed a lot along the way. But the process that works for me is spending two days just making it exist in a document and then however many more days you have actually making it good or actually making it funny, putting jokes in. Everyone's got their process.
Shay 59:19
With the pilot you said you sold it. Did you just sell the idea and then now you have to write the pilot. Is that how it works?
Gilli Nissim 59:26
Yes, it is the longest process I have ever been a part of. Whatever money you get paid, which is extremely exciting, I'm very proud of. It is not money you can live off of because they give you this number that's really exciting. But I've been working on it for two and a half years. Writers say, "You better really like what you're working on because they'll make it go." And that makes sense. These people have like 90 other TV shows that are already on the air. They don't have time. It's a matter of like resources. It's not like anyone's punishing you on purpose, but it takes a long time. So, the process was coming up with the idea, your agent likes it, they set you up to pitch it to production companies. So, that was so many pitches. And then if one of them agreed to work with you, they set you up to pitch to studios. And then that's a million years, and then you pitch to networks. So, I really only started the actual writing process and the last bit of all this, it's like a big rigmarole. But I also find it fun. Thank God.
Shay 1:00:55
Yeah. Well, that's, that's cool. I mean, that's just good to know. And good for people to know that too. Where can we find you and support you?
Gilli Nissim 1:01:07
Hell yeah. I am
@time2getgill like the Beastie Boys. What's the time, it's time to get Gill? My friend Erica came up with that as my AOL screen name, and we're sticking with it. I don't post a ton if I'm being honest. But I exist in those places. And it's worth following because Jake and I are going to do We're Gross again. We don't know when we're giving ourselves permission to take our time. Because the world is different. And we're different. And we don't want to do exactly what we were doing before. Without considering it feels very Wizard of Oz like "come out come out". We're all just weird munchkins creeping out of our homes. The world is Technicolor once again. This is one instance where we don't want to have a deadline and just do it because of the deadline. This is purely for fun show. But look out for that. And it would be cool if people came and you'll have a nice cathartic time at a talk show.
Shay 1:02:21
Well, one last question. What is some advice that you would give to someone who wants to be as prepared as possible to get into a writing room to be a writer, but also just for the journey of being a writer?
Gilli Nissim 1:02:39
Great question. I will say this, I was scared. I kind of mentioned that before. It took me a long time to say out loud that I wanted to be an actor. So, I felt extra bad saying that I wanted to be something else. I felt like that made me seem wishy washy, like a bunch of silly ideas that I felt I was not being honorable in changing my idea about what I could be good at. So, I think be willing to go after what you want. And pay attention to what seems to be coming your way. And if that changes your mind about what you're going to be doing with your life, that's okay, you get to decide if you stay the course, or if you recalibrate and pursue something else. And then the only other thing I'll say is when I was still in this mode, where it was becoming clear, there's no age limit on when you should do this. I wasn't enjoying not working as an actor wasn't, I wasn't enjoying not having a creative way to be a part of the entertainment industry, which is really essentially what I wanted. And some really cool people, Laura Chin and Rachel Bloom both separately, who are like massive successes, told me, "You're a writer, you're just scared. Just do it." I don't think anyone can just tell you to stop being scared. There's a lot of ingredients that need to happen. But I think getting encouragement and then leaning on friends to read my writing was massively important. And I asked a lot of friends to do it. And some of them were friends who were in writer's rooms and some of them were not. They were like me, they were just trying to learn. So, be willing to be open to the idea of going to where you can get hired. If it still falls under the umbrella of what you want in this life. Be as encouraging as you can for other people because then they will encourage you as well.
Shay 1:05:00
Yes, I love it. I love it. Thank you for sharing that and just thank you in general for sharing your life, being vulnerable on this podcast. It was really great.
Gilli Nissim 1:05:11
This is so fun and I really enjoy listening. What a good idea, even if someone's advice doesn't apply to us, just hearing that people are out there trying is also fun. So, thanks for putting these out.
Shay 1:05:24
(outro) Absolutely. Yes. Well, thank you to everybody who is listening. This is Level Up! With Shay, and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed it, take a screenshot on your phone, share it on Instagram, and tag me @LevelUpWithShay and tag Gilly @time2getgill, go follow her on social media even though she says she doesn't post much. At least go to her page and look at her beautiful Golden Retriever puppy. So cute. All of the links you need to find her and her pup Wilma are in the show notes. Subscribe to Level Up! With Shay wherever you get your podcasts. Again, thank you so much for being here. Especially since it is the very last interview episode of season two. It's been great, but I'll see you in some solo episodes coming up. Until then, it's time to level up!
